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Caroline Missen — Business Advisor to Downstream Director | Shell","preloadPreference":"","progress":1.0,"protected":false,"projectId":4073126,"seoDescription":"a Catalant | Customer Testimonials video","showAbout":true,"status":2,"type":"Video","playableWithoutInstantHls":true,"stats":{"loadCount":199979,"playCount":416,"uniqueLoadCount":121268,"uniquePlayCount":381,"averageEngagement":0.132698},"trackingTransmitInterval":80,"liveStreamEventDetails":null,"integrations":{"marketo_v2":true,"google_analytics":true},"captions":[{"language":"eng","text":"Let me just start off with a question picking up on the previous discussion Scott's comments just really quickly lightning round. Why do companies care about innovation. Why do they need innovate. You think growth.\n\nOK survival. Competition survival. I heard another couple of people say something. But I couldn't pick it out.\n\nRelevance avoid stagnation. OK It's fun doing it well was fun. OK So which of those factors applies to talent today can't grow without the right talent. You can't be competitive without the right talent.\n\nYou're going to die without the right talent. You're not going to be relevant if you don't have thought leadership. If you don't have the type of energy and insight and capability that's embedded in talent. And so I'd ask you to think about digital transformation a bit through the lens of.\n\nThat's one of the ways companies are trying to innovate in the realm of tablet now. How does that express itself in the web in the realm of town. Well, it can make your company more efficient. You can you can through digital innovation reduce lots of types of work often types of work.\n\nThat is soul deadening and boring routine cognitive work. You can transform your processes to speed up your cycle time. You can change your work processes to enhance the enjoyment and fun of your employees. And this is particularly important right now because essentially for roughly 300 to 400 million people in the world that have highly valuable skills right now there's going to be demand for about double that number.\n\nSo companies are going to be facing a situation where the skills they need critically the combinations. The unusual combinations of skills they need are going to be harder and harder to get and that means you need a process you need to start thinking now about how I'm going to accomplish two or three things and like any manufacturing process any kind of process. The first thing I want to do is keep what I've got. I don't want to scrap things I've already invested in and in the talent domain.\n\nThat means I've got to think about retaining the important people in it for my future. I didn't say the highest paid people I didn't say the yet just the people who got the most urgent skills today or in the most important projects today have to really think about my talent inventory and how I'm going to keep what I've already managed to obtain available to me. And that requires companies thinking differently than they have today. The first thing it requires is making individual more the unit of analysis than the job and another thing the company has to cling to and certainly my conversation of the executives.\n\nThis is something they lose touch with is no one takes any job anticipating it's going to be terrible and they don't want to. They don't want to work at that company. And this is going to be a miserable experience. Maybe if you join the French Foreign Legion or something.\n\nBut in terms of take a job people take it full of hope aspiration the belief. It's going to advance their interests, their careers. That is going to be fun. They can learn that they can progress and then way too many companies forget that the deal.\n\nAnd suddenly find themselves abusing that person of their fond hopes that this is going to be a great, great job for them a great opportunity for them. Now, we've all read lots of data about the motivation of millennials and high educated, highly educated people. And they want to work for an organization that's doing important things. And it expresses a purpose.\n\nAnd that's true. I don't think actually, it's all that different. Intergenerational I think we keep doing surveys of people between the ages of 22 and 28. And we find out that they you know, want to see the world and change the world improve the world and have an impact and stand for something important.\n\nAnd then they start coming down with mortgages and kids and tuitions and cars and then a little stability sounds pretty good. But in any case first. The first challenge for employer is keeping what I've got and making a working environment that speaks to higher aspirations than those people that voluntarily signed up to work for you and making the most of their talents which means putting them on a conscious learning path showing them the power of investment in their capabilities. The second thing we've got to do is keep that supply chain prime, which means we're going to have to recruit some additional people in the traditional way we've recruited them.\n\nI we're hiring somebody in two full time position. But once again and Scott had a great image of he wanted to be a meta in media boy then you know who the New York Times. That's where I want to work. And I so often see big companies very well reputed in their industries very well thought of by their customers respected by their competitors or feared better yet by their competitors who have missed the point that a lot of the people they want to hire are not going to be drawn like some moth to the flame because you're a big company with a great brand anymore.\n\nIn fact, is increasingly kind of suspicion that that's going to be collinear with soul deadening work. Absolutely routinized advancement patterns. Absolutely routinized work assignment. Absolutely routinized compensation increases and rather than going to those workers you want to get in saying aren't we great.\n\nI got AI used to be in the consulting business. So I'm going to spare you four box matrix by the way. But you know it's very amusing to go watch my school Harvard Business School, the consulting firms hiring presentations they're there they're pretty much all the same. We're a big global company.\n\nWe work on strategic issues and let us tell you about our work. Saving Haiti or let us tell you about our work in malaria reduction in sub-Saharan Africa or let us tell you what we're doing for refugees from the Syrian Civil War. And I hear about these stories saying when are they going to talk about the bank cost reduction studies actually pay for all of that stuff. What employees want to hear is about not what's in it for them in a cynical way.\n\nBut what kind of opportunities you can create for them and what they automatically get engaged with is when you start talking them about the problems you've got in your organization, the challenges. You've got to meet and how they might be part of solving that the final thing I just want to bring up in terms of thinking about innovation as it relates to Talent is we're going to have to stop thinking about talent through the lens of talent acquisition. I need someone to do something. I'm going to go hire them.\n\nThey're going to work for me on in a normative career path and a job description not predefined. Those days are not over entirely but they're going to be largely undone by this unbelievable supply demand imbalance for certain types of skills which means you're going to have to start accommodating other types of talent i.e. talent that don't work for you full time are only going to work for you episodically seasonally. Once because that may be the only way I can get that talent. I don't believe there's anyone from Clorox in the room right.\n\nSo great company good product CEO it's one a couple of Glassdoor awards for being a fine leader and who wouldn't or be interested in working for Clorox well I'm sure there are some people who were anti bleach for some reason. But they have a curse curse which is headquartered in San Francisco and you may say, well has it. It's beautiful. You know and other than the fact that marginal tax rates are over 100 percent.\n\nSo there's no point work in California. The you know, it's a great place to live. So let me just ask you a question does Clorox want to hire anybody who applies to the job of being head of advanced analytics and Clorox. It's got to be the 10,000 most attractive job for highly qualified person right in the Bay Area within 20 minute drive of their headquarters.\n\nSo unless you're that company with that great moral purpose that great location high appeal on your brand to workers, which is a very fleeting thing more they're going to be more and more of those situations we're getting the right talent you need at the right time is not going to lend itself to well, we're just going to hope post a job offer. It's going to be mobilizing the people in your company already and putting them to work on things. It's even though that work isn't in their reporting line isn't being run by their boss it's going to be finding ways to accommodate different types of non-traditional workers because it's the I'm going to employ someone myself or I'm going to go hire a vendor who employs somebody and those are my two solutions that binary world is going to come apart because the people you're the companies you're hiring to do this work for you.\n\nThey will be able to get the talent, either. And you're going to have to find ways to wreak it wreak suppress the value proposition of coming to work around problems around meaning around purpose and what I want. I'll leave you with before I ask Carolyn to join me is almost no companies are configured to do what I just said think about all the fundamental processes of your company in terms of how you sourced talent about how you assign talent to work about how you reward people about how you do project management none of those are configured for rapidly moving internal talent to places where some specific skill set of theirs can be expressed.\n\nAlmost no professional development systems. I'm familiar with the big companies have a very conscious development path for anybody short of a vice president. They have a career. They have a career ladder they have a kid.\n\nBut they don't have a development path. What are the specific capabilities we want to help build and this person have a better asset later. Think about the way you run projects try cross staffing a project across organizational units and just wait for the phone to start ringing about wait a second. Wait a second.\n\nI don't want them on my budget if they're not working for me. Wait a second. Wait a second. Who's going to do the performance review.\n\nWait a second. We've got a good worker. How are we going to protect our IP. The CIO can't tolerate this.\n\nYou can't possibly deal with this. So almost all the routine processes and procedures by which you run your organization act as repellents as antibodies to the mobilization of talent the way you're going to have to source it within your company from outside your company and in dealing with casual gig type workers in the future. That's a big challenge. And I'm sensing there are companies doing some interesting things going to talk about lunch now with Shell with Carolyn miles.\n\nBut the. If you're in if you and your colleagues at your employer are not worried about this get worried about it because staying competitive in the future is going to require you to be able to mobilize talent and put them to work and keep them working with you and for you in ways that your forefathers and there for mother. I guess maybe that's just a gender neutral term. Mother earth and your forefathers never anticipated.\n\nSo I want to ask Carolyn to come join me as so. Carolyn, I got to know Carolyn actually was introduced her through Kotlin through for some research. I'm doing a Harvard Business School about looking for companies that we're beginning to address some of the problems. I just talked about.\n\nSo tell him Maybe you could talk a little bit about the program. You've been piloting at Shell. Describe a little bit. What were the circumstances that led you to start thinking about innovative ways to use digital transformation to address talent needs in the company shop.\n\nThanks, Joe. Hi, everyone. Well, I mean, as an energy company. We sort of faced with two big impacts.\n\nAnd the first one is the energy transition, which is over the last couple of days become even more apparent. The world needs more energy driven by increases in population, particularly in countries like China and India. At the same time, we need to address the big challenge around climate change and global warming. And that's going to mean a different energy mix.\n\nIt's going to mean that consumers have changing needs and then linked to that. The other big impact is clearly digitalization. And with that for it shell is could clearly be a potential disruptor. But actually, we see it as a potential source of competitive advantage.\n\nIt's an opportunity for us to reach our entire refinery orientate our organization and shrink than it is today. And to also look at how we can improve our operations in terms of driving efficiencies and productivity exactly the sorts of things that sue was speaking about the g.e. is working on a cut as two years ago. And I was working in one of our businesses and we started to review our strategy looked at how we needed to diversify and shift from being very product centric to being far more customer centric and realized that we needed to do a lot more commercial innovation and started to look at what that meant.\n\nAnd realized that main that was going to be quite a lot of experimentation digital innovation incubating ideas. And then we recognized pretty quickly that we would not set up with the resources and talent to actually drive that. We had been using and partnering with cattle engine and making use of their external marketplace and we sort of started to think about the opportunity of how we could leverage the platform internally for our own talent, because we had we done actually an exercise in setting up a reverse mentoring program around digital for one of our leadership teams. We'd gone out to staff surveyed them found out who had digital skills ended up with a short list of sort of eight people who would be mentoring our senior leaders.\n\nBut actually, we had a long list of 50 people. And what was really interesting is that these people came from all parts of the organization. Very few of them were working in what we'd call digital roles. And most of them were pretty junior in the company.\n\nBut they were and they were hidden. So we thought, here's an here's an idea. So we managed to a colleague and I managed to sell this idea into the leadership team that we were run a small scale pilot based around some digital projects we wanted to work on. And this put small pool that pool of talent, which was essentially our supply and demand.\n\nIf you like. We didn't have any trouble convincing the leadership team to run this pilot. And we said we would measure it and see how we went and that sort of led to us now rolling this out far more broadly in one of our businesses about 10% of the Show group and just highlight of the three things that we wanted to measure in doing this. We said firstly we wanted to test sort of the user experience.\n\nDid the tech work period was the functionality as good as Kotlin promised it would be. The second was really what's the business value of this. Could we demonstrate that actually using this technology, we were able to match individuals to work that needed to be done at pace in a far more men automated less manual way and potentially get some work done that didn't sound requires outsourcing and spending money with external consultants or contractors. And then thirdly, what did it mean in terms of the employee value proposition.\n\nHow could we demonstrate that actually staff who had the opportunity to do this sort of project work could be more satisfied and obviously help with retention and get a more interesting work experience. And in a very short period of time. We were able to really tick all of those boxes and got the agreement to sort of roll this out with a larger number of staff. Carolla I think what I think of shell.\n\nI think of a global highly reputed engineering oriented company that does dangerous things like punch holes 30,000 feet into the ground to look for high pressure gas or operate offshore oil rigs or crack carbon in a way that can. Can you hold two very large explosions if you don't do it right. So this is a company that is very process oriented. Over 100 years old global and that, of course, suggests that in any global setting you really have to have policies and procedures, rules everything everything just go become unique to the jurisdictions How did you bring this type of approach to a company that is so deliberately and importantly regimented so they can do its core work effectively.\n\nWell, not easy. I mean, we're an organization of 90 1,000 people. And I guess we started small and we've been in one part of our organization business where the commercial, which has a staff. It's the B2B of our business in terms of selling products be they aviation fuels lubricants and bitumen and sulfur.\n\nSo it already has a bit of a customer orientation and we have a leader of our business who is very progressive. And so I think, without a doubt, one of the key and who really believed in this and was willing to pilot, we recognized pretty early on that actually, there was quite a lot of resistance and tension from parts of our organization and particularly the h.r. function. So what we ended up doing was really defining our pilot in such a way that it was not going to sort of get into the territory of our permanent resourcing approach. So we decided to focus on the discretionary time of an employee.\n\nAnd we said that's less than 20% individuals opt in and decide what they do with some discussion with their line manager. So clearly someone who was on a performance improvement program or brand new in a job, perhaps wouldn't be the right time for them to get involved. But we managed to sort of frame it in that way that the h.r. organization were quite comfortable with this. And it was very much a business led initiative.\n\nAnd I think I had another colleague and myself, who were both in a commercial background. We absolutely believed that this is one of the things that's going to change our company. And we were persistent and required at times a bit of probably a bit of courage to challenge some senior leaders who said, this is just not ever going to happen and doesn't fit with our processes. And over.\n\nAnd what happened was then he started to find a bit of a coalition of the willing if you like, who were also change agents who were looking to transform the organization. So I think that. And also starting small. I think the other thing I'd say is without giving too much of an advertisement the catalyst is that we really didn't know what we were doing and how to go about doing it.\n\nIt was a real learning curve for us. We did know we had a vision of what we wanted to do when we knew the sorts of resourcing that we needed. But we had partners in cations who were willing to work alongside us. This was not a normal vendor supplier relationship.\n\nThis was literally co creating and adjusting and iteratively doing it as we went. And I think that's made her a really big difference. And I think we didn't we didn't also give the impression that we had all the answers. We were very open about we have to sort of just learn as we go.\n\nYeah, I'm just going to take a tangent for a second, which is a lot of the discussions. I have with companies there is this is kind of kabuki stylized exchange where a lot of the line executives when they talk about their concerns about talent their concerns about the pace of innovation in the company. Then there's the PSI, and the net. I always know the next two words are going to have to be human relations or human resources and that and part one part of this kind of morality play is h.r. standing the way of everything.\n\nYou know why can't they get the talent we need. Why can't you know why they're so inflexible blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you go down the hallway and talk to see gyro and what there is say is, well know there are these things called laws and regulations and commitments we've made contractually to employees and moral commitments we've made with employees and we do actually have to run the business on said set of principles and policies as opposed to make it up as we go along. And the h.r. and most big companies right now is very well configured to run those routine processes, and they did not historically was not always the most innovative function.\n\nA lot of good companies have very dynamic h.r. functions which are designed to run today and the way they run today is very much rooted in the past. Just as is the case with every process in your company. The question is, how do you set up a parallel set of processes that accommodates the way the world's unfolding. You can't stop the boss and get off.\n\nBut you're going to need you know a scooter or a moat to ride along next to the bus and you know gradually it's going to become more and more an important part of the way you deliver your talent. So Carolyn that my what were the. Were there any particular barriers that really stood in your way or even were surprises for you. And how do you how do you communicate this program how to get people aligned around it.\n\nI mean, I think the I mean, one of the surprises was Spain has been actually, I think it's about actually getting out and doing something and actually once we had started to roll out the platform amongst this one business you started to say the mindset of some of the leaders start to change. I could actually see how this might add value to their own business. They actually saw it live. So I think that, you know, that's been quite really positive.\n\nI think we I think the other thing that's happened is that other businesses and other functions within the company have actually seen this, and they want to get a piece of that too. And in a way that's helped us because actually, we've created some demand, which then means that when we go and speak with our h.r. colleagues, we can say, look, this is not just one isolated case. We now see potential use cases of this in terms of other functions where particularly resources where they might be I.t. or legal that actually work in more of a project basis already that you could easily deploy this also see how we'll be able to assemble agile teams much faster.\n\nSo I think that's been a really positive surprise. I think the one reflection we've had though, to your point, you were making Joe. Is that part of our digitalization efforts across the company. We've sort of had two things going on.\n\nWe've let Hundred Flowers bloom and we've sort of encouraged everywhere businesses and individuals to start with their own ideas. And then at the same time, we've had a CEO led sort of initiative, which is really trying to get every business to stop the digitalization work in sponsoring accelerators that had executive committee scrutiny, which has been positive in actually some businesses who were perhaps lagging have had to get going whereas there's been others, particularly at our more customer orientated into the company. You know digital marketing and tech have been something we've been focused on for a much, much longer period.\n\nSo that's how I think the two things. But our challenge is really the industrializing of things and really making it happen at scale. So while we've got this fantastic example. Now in one of our businesses that we can say, we'll just grow over time, we've now got 700 people on the platform.\n\nWe can say that we can build that to a few thousand over time. The challenge is you know, is this a new way of working that perhaps things around talent they do start from an individual business. And is it is it realistic for us to think that, then we will roll them out across our entire workforce, which I guess has been the model of anything to do with h.r. and talent in the past. I mean, I'd like to think so because the real power of an internal human cloud or as we've called it our opportunity hub is actually tapping into really diverse people across the organization.\n\nOne of the other. I think surprises we've had, which is something that's always nice to talk to h.r. colleagues about this that I believe this is a way that we can actually take out some of the bias that we have in how we resource projects today tends to be people putting a team together. It's who they know who's in their network, whereas this is really tapping into hidden resources you might not know, they might not have any visibility. And one really nice example of this is that it was a project that was being put together.\n\nThat was looking at sort of some sustainability options in our in one of our supply chains and the post the project was posted by a colleague in Houston. And he had a number of people that pitched to work on it. And the person who came out who had the best offer. He was sitting in one of our many red manufacturing plants outside Cairo in Egypt and he'd only ever done local jobs he'd never had an A services assignment in one of the hubs.\n\nAnd I worked on this project together for a period of eight weeks and had some it produced good results. And for me, that was just such a great example of how you could tap into resources in faraway places that you might never have found before. It's going to open for questions on the second day. I think you can see multiple strands here of why I was excited to get to know what they were doing at Shell which is individuals are getting opportunities to be invested in and to show their skills and work on major projects.\n\nSo here you have an Egyptian engineer, you can imagine that this has been the most exciting thing in Niger and the likelihood that he's going to quit. And go somewhere else has been reduced. And you get skilled work a lot against the right project, not the people who happen to be available in the control of the manager who's got that question. Working on it and you've got experimentation at a safe small enough level so that you can start winning over the skeptics.\n\nAnd so he'd be very interesting to take Scott's hierarchy of why innovation doesn't happen. And just got to map it into the question of innovation to the point of talent. For example, you talked about you got you have executive sponsorship and the thinking about what those barriers are systematically and designing a program around agility around digital transformation with those in mind, I think will lead you on a path to some success. Richard Reilly when I ask for any quest.\n\nSure I think we have time for one or two questions from the audience here who's got some. I'm not going to look to the center again. So I'll get over here questions for the shell journey for Caroline and for Joe I will call on people I know somebody actually, I want over here high must you climb in from vintage partners. Thank you for sharing.\n\nI'm wondering, as you imagine evolving this into a broader effort of you know, you talked about how you had a pilot and in some ways kind of segregated them from the normal business processes Joe versus bus kind of notion. So now you start to roll it out. Right you start to have to embed into the broader organization. Can you just talk a little bit about the four or five key process or development path Award Compensation or managerial practice changes that you see you need to now really develop to actually truly embed this into the organization.\n\nSure So I mean, the business rolled it out into this commercial business of 9,000 staff. So we've definitely moved beyond the pilot. We've got 700 people now on the platform. So we have fully embedded it.\n\nAnd what we've done is really create a pretty simple sort of one page for line managers and for individuals to understand sort of what's involved. We've actually one of the things that we learned is as we went along, we had focal points in each part of our business each that they pay essentially across regions and the functions within this one business, and they were we all wanted to identify pretty sort of passionate up and coming individuals who would really be champions within the business for this. But what we found was that was highly manual because they were getting lots of emails and being code all the time.\n\nSo actually, we've put in place a sort of launch site where people can actually go and get all the information and then from that they can register also have the ability to suck in their LinkedIn profile. So all of that is very automated and reduces the requirements of the focal points to actually spend a lot of time on it. What we've done is also embedded it. We have a performance process linked to bonus and we've actually excluded that this from that because we've said that this is about the discretionary time you have.\n\nWe also have everyone has a development plan and we said this is the place where actually you can talk about what you're doing and actually link it to the development areas that you have for some people that might be they need to. They want to expand their network in different parts of the organization that perhaps want to leverage some skills that they can't in their current job. So integrating it into that development plan is a place that at least it's being recognized. We did talk quite a lot about whether or not we should be having some type of financial incentives for people that have done the work.\n\nWe actually decided this is more around just personal recognition and we didn't want to complicate it with the incentive program. And that seems to work really well. And one of the interesting things about it because senior leaders have now got quite interested. There's already quite a lot of visibility.\n\nAnd so we can showcase some of the good projects that are being done, which is also you know enhancing the value proposition. So we've really tried to build on existing processes and not add anything new. And we just really wanting to keep it as simple as we possibly could. Time for one last question.\n\nYes Oh, sorry. Really fascinating discussion. Thank you so much for sharing Shell's experience. Oh, sorry.\n\nMy name is Kristin Sheriff I run the workers and technology program at a d.c. think tank called new America. And I invested it because so much of the discussion has been from the perspective of the company itself and the company's processes and how to actually Institute this. And so I'm wondering if you could end by talking a little bit about the impact and sort of effects on actual workers and how you measure those things. Do people report that they are getting the skills that they wanted to get on their plan.\n\nDo people say, you know, I am moving up. I've been promoted. What are the ways that you're. What are the metrics you using for those things and has it been helpful.\n\nYeah, I mean, to be honest, that's the easy bit. The other the company side of it has been what's challenging. So we are measuring employee satisfaction. And we also have the ability through our annual people survey to look at employee engagement as well.\n\nSo we have measures from sort of the start and the end of when people have joined and finished projects to be able to understand that uplift and actually all the signals are very positive. We were quite concerned initially which is why we've sort of done it in an iterative way that we didn't just open it up to the 9000 employees in this business initially. We wanted to make sure we had a good supply demand balance. And actually, we've now found that having, got to over 500 staff on the platform.\n\nWe can expand it. And we haven't had any issues with really individuals concerned that they're not getting access to opportunities. So that's all quite positive. I mean, I think it's still very early days in terms of saying, are people going to actually be able to progress and get promoted as a result of it.\n\nBut we are trying again without wanting to reinvent new measures used to use what we've got. And also that's one of the benefits of the catalyst platform. It's quite easy for us to add new things in there if we want to ask questions and we're sort of learning as we go there. But the there's also been quite a lot of sort of ongoing sort of focus group discussion with users to understand how they exploit the experiences for them.\n\nBut it's really overwhelmingly possible positive people just love the fact that they get access to opportunities and projects that were completely outside there. There was no visibility of in the past. So it's Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty good news story from the employee perspective today. One quick final question for me other than perhaps expanding the opportunity hub more broadly and shell what would be the next one or two things you'd like to think about experimenting with how to expand the digital transformation and engaging talent in the company.\n\nWell, I think our vision of this is far more than just this discretionary time of the 20% It's about looking how we expand to broader projects within shell and then it's about saying what about other populations outside the company. So we can see potential with alumni as retirees. And then there's this whole opportunity with the contingent workforce as well, which is I mean, that's a very grand vision. And that's where we know talking to companies like Unilever they're working on this as well.\n\nSo for me, that is sort of the utopia of where you'd like to get to also where consultants that whole pool of resources so that we don't look so much talent in this traditional way that we define it currently. Yeah, that's great. Rich please join me in thanking Caroline and Joe. 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